Hi I am new to this hobby and am looking for any input on a 3d printer and easy slicer program for beginners. Looking at the ender pro V2 and the Tywoo 3d. Have read reviews and the only challenge on the Ender is the assembly which may be an issue depending on how difficult. Any input on either of these printers or others and a slicer program would be very much appreciated. Thank you
HI @Retiredguy , A huge warm welcome to the forum, Glad you found us. Pull up a chair and hang for a bit.
I cannot comment on the Tywoo printer as I have not physically had my hands on one but I can attest to the Ender 3 Pro V2. We have a video on our youtube channel on the assembly process. If you watch the video to the end, Then open the box and play the video again following along and pausing as you need to to stay in sync, you will be printing in an hour. Its not a difficult assembly process, pretty straight forward just sometimes a little “fiddley”
Our Youtube video is linked below to get you to it quickly, If it’s your first printer and you just want easy, able to work, Lots of community support and plenty of upgrades you can do if you want to the 3V2 is your printer. I know I sound like a sales guy but I’m really not, I’m a nerd and I just worry about does it work or not.
Might want to look at Prusa printers. most of these other printers need a lot of upgrades to get them working properly and less tuning. you sound like someone that would appreciate as little mechanical intervention as you can get and Prusa is excellent in that regard.
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Assembling an Ender3V2 is not that hard, I followed a video step by step from BV3D on YouTube and it was fine. The E3V2 is the best of the Ender 3 series, the Max has a bigger print area but lacks other refinements and the new Ender S1 is just an E3V2 that has been revamped with some extra’s added and glitzed up but is a lot more expensive. I have added all the “refinements” minus the direct drive (that I don’t need right now) on to my V2 and it is effectively the same machine. The V2 print size can be increase if necessary. Most important is that you can get intro printing cheaply and upgrade as necessary and still have less money in it and have the print quality of much more expensive machines.
It comes down to what you need. Start printing for less money or spend a lot more up front and then don’t worry about upgrading.
I would second @Glenn. Prusa they just work. Upgrades are 100% supported and documented by Prusa with excellent tech support. So when a new one is released it is very likely the older units can be brought to the new unit version.
If you look at the issues people post about with the creality and its subsidiaries you will see a huge volume of problems. Shenzhen Kywoo 3D Technology Co., Ltd, Shenzhen Creality3D Technology Co., Ltd likely are the same parent company. We know that Shenzhen Piocreat 3D Technology Co., Ltd is owned by: Shenzhen Technology Co., Ltd and they are a sister company of Creality.
It appears to me Creality and the many other companies that bear a almost exactly same name are using the lower end machines as beta testing for the pro machines.
Thanks everyone for all your insights. No question that the Prusa is one of the elite printers but more expensive. What i need to decide on is how much I want to spend initially on entering this new hobby. I am leaning towards getting a starter printer like the Ender and if I get hooked into the hobby look at upgrading from there. Again thank you all for the input and I am sure you will see more of my posts as questions arise. Take care
$200 to $300 on the low end and possibly over a thou. on the other.
I own both a prusa mini (clone) and an Ender 3 max and one of my goals with getting back into 3d printing was to spend more time using the printers and less time fixing/modding the printers. I did a bunch of this type of stuff very early on, building some original RepRaps and the like, so very familiar with the “if it doesn’t work modify it” approach.
My prusa, even though it’s a clone is a workhorse. I’ve only had to do a couple of things to it ever and that was mostly because the guy I bought it from didn’t do the best job of assembly, and I also swapped out the bowden tube for a better one because the cheap one that it came with was problematic … likely also due to the person who assembled who screwed it up.
My Ender 3 Max … has been a constant uphill battle. It’s gotten to the point where I have to clear nozzle blockages 1-2 time a DAY. So I just ordered an updated extruder / hot end combination. I also have a CR Touch to install that’s sitting here waiting, and I’ll also most likely have to install the dual Z axis upgrade too in order to get it to the reliability I’m looking for. So in the end the $$, not to mention the labour, put it in the same prince range as a Prusa.
If you don’t like tinkering spend the money up front on a Prusa (and possibly wait for it). Otherwise you’ll spend the money (and time) later, not to mention the aggravation. It will make for a MUCH better first printer experience than trying to figure out nozzle clogs, extruder issues, etc.
If I may ask, what kind of stuff are you looking to print?
Thanks for that info. I am a newbie looking into getting into the hobby. Looking at printing mostly models and whatever. Nothing at his point to complicated. Struggling to justify spending $1000 for a Prusa or 500 tp $600 for a tywoo or Creality CR-10s. My thinking is get a reasonable price printer to start , if I really get hooked sell it to upgrade.
You will not recoop much money selling the less expensive printers, if you can at all, because of the same reasons you are thinking of. People buy less expensive ones to start, then either get frustrated and think 3d printing sucks because they have lots of issues with it, or find they like it and then spend more money again on either a bunch of upgrades, or the buy the better printers and are stuck with the ones they started with.
There are lots of used Enders all the time on the market and almost zero Prusa. You will take a fair loss going that route and encounter much frustration. On the other hand if you spend the $1k up front and then decide it’s not right for you, you can probably sell the Prusa really quickly for almost full retail. Honestly if you can make the $1k budget work it’s a win-win. The other route is a guaranteed loss.
I’ve learned this same thing with many other hobbies over the years! Starting cheap == losing money whether you continue the hobby or not.
EDIT: Also, as with most other hobbies you will never, ever get your money back from upgrades. That’s another place where you’re throwing money into a hole in the ground almost for sure.
A lot of this is about learning how these work, it’s not like you don’t get any value to the struggles you have to keep them going. if it totally worked every time you send a file your learning curve is short but you are losing out on some of the knowledge you gain. If you buy a low line printer and stick with printing you will spend way more in money and time than the initial cost of a higher line printer. I have 2 of these low line printers they came with some upgrade components already, one I got used and needed repair, that one has cost almost what a new one would have by now and I just discovered the new motherboard I put in it and suspected was bad … really is bad lol, and needs replaced now.
I bought my Prusa spent about 10 hours assembly, I took my time and got it as good as I could. I have about 3 hours past that mostly just changing nozzles that has all but stopped with the xnozzle it looks new after many months.
I spend about 5oo$ on my sidewinder (artillery 3d technology co. limited Creality? likely) Out of the box the bed was badly warped. I sent an email, three weeks later no reply I bought a bed ($100) Then found the hot end was not extruding. Replaced the throat and nozzle ($ 30) same issue, replaced the liner and check the heat sync (10$) The hot end continually jams ended up replacing the whole hot end (80) Discovered the bed still has issues added a BL touch (60) Check connections of the hotend and discover the board is really badly assembled. Check other board, all bad replace the lot. 50$ Discover the connectors are mis matched JST jammed into duponts and held with glue. Replaced all the connectors with properly mating ones 30$ in silicone wires and connectors heat shrink. Discover the second bed is warped warranty is void so buy bed two.
Eventually I fixed all the issues. About the only parts I didn’t adjust was the metal skirt. Almost every thing else needed adjustment and or replacement.
It prints OK not awesome. I have a 0.6 nozzle and it can almost keep up with the prusa not quite it is faster with its 0.4 nozzle. It is far lower print quality and about 150$ more and 100 hours in time.
Cheaper isn’t always cheaper.
well, I found out my MB wasn’t the problem, mine uses a USB3 cable to the print head and that was bad. it’s back printing now but in that endeavor, I discovered a lot of loose parts so it’s all back tight again, and printing. I don’t regret having these printers, I learned a lot and sure didn’t have the trouble a lot of people have at the beginning and keeping them running. I am going to order an XL too. I was on a waitlist for an MK3 but canceled when the XL was announced.
I am a member of this Prusa FB group. This awesome grandpa bought his grandson a Prusa MK3S kit and his story touched me. He is so right about how well the Prusa is designed. I bought mine in kit form and learned so much putting it together and having loads of fun doing it. Yes, a vendor here in Canada currently has stock in the MK3S+ kit for $999. last week, they had over 150 in inventory and today, they are down to 57. That’s how good these printers are, they sell so fast and back orders can last for weeks till they see more.
I have never owned any other FDM printer other than the Prusa. When I decided to finally take the plunge on the purchase of a printer, I considered the Ender line but a friend convinced me to go with Prusa. How did I realize the extra $500 to get this over the Ender? It’s been said on numerous FB groups and forums, “what is your time worth to you?” When you buy the Prusa, there is no need to purchase any upgrades to get it printing perfectly after the build. There is little to no troubleshooting required to getting the first print going. I took this into consideration and decided the $500 extra more than covered the upgrade material and time spent troubleshooting. I was so happy I did this because after I ran through the setup wizard, my first print off the supplied samples on the SD card came out perfect. This workhorse has never let me down. I send print after print to this printer, and I am amazed at the results every time. At the end of the day, the question is, “do you want to fix your printer, or do you want to print?”. That, I think, is the difference in the price.
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My Prusa was my third printer @bd43 you described my experience too. It just works.
Just to be a devils advocate. I first bought an ender 3 clone, and then a prusa mini. In my expieence the prusa just works, no questions there, but theres lots i wouldnt have learned abut 3d printers if I hadnt gone the route i did. With the prusa i havent touched firmware, or even really tried to fiddle with the settings. That may be a benifit from most, but the few issues (user error) ive come across, im wayy more confident taking apart and rebuilding my prusa beacuse of my expierence fiddeling with my other printer.
The “best” printer is subjective to each of us. What works for one is crap to another.
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It all comes down to what you want to get out of 3d printing. If you want to just print and not learn how to fix things and upgrade and rewire, i.e. download a model, put in the slicer and hit print, end of story … or if you want the full-on experience of scratching your head to try and figure out why you’re getting nozzle clogs over and over again, adding upgrades, rewiring, splicing in additional connectors, etc etc.
Both bits are fun, but these days I’m definitely more interested in printing than (re)building printers.
I have an Ender 3V2 and other then a few learning hiccups, that everyone has regardless of printer brand, I do not have any problems printing. I think a lot of people have problems because they are doing something wrong or at least not in the best manner and just blame the printer as the path of least resistance. There are a few minor upgrades that should be done to an Ender 3 series machine that will help like better springs and Capricorn tubing (especially the Luke Hatfield Tube trick) but those are not limited to the Creality and Ender printers. Many other brands need the same thing.
I have modded my machine with a CR Touch, Dual Z axis, filament runout sensor and a couple of large cooling fans for the PW and MB. Not really necessary but I started with a Volkswagen and I almost have a Cadillac and it prints as good as a Prusa for less then half the price (about $500 all in including the printer and parts). Add a role of filament that I printed out mod parts with to that total. When I first started printing and I joined here someone mentioned that I should expect to burn a role of filament learning how to use a printer so I printed out a lot of mods to get experience. Drag chains, Filament guides, ball bearing filament roller etc. about 14 in total. None of them are necessary but they do improve the Cadillac, oops, sorry printer.
If you just want to print and not know anything about printers and how they work then get the Prusa it is a great printer. If you want to know how a printer works and how to upgrade and repair it then get an Ender 3V2. Don’t forget any printer, including a Prusa, will fail at some point. Can you fix it???
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Most who buy Prusa buy the kit that they assembled themselves. That means yes most certainly can and they have an unbelievably good manual and 24/7 support. My experience with the sidewinder no matter what you change it just doesn’t stack up. I replaced most of the printer and it is still slower, and doesn’t print as well.