It should be interesting to see how Bambu learns from your experience as well as that of other customer’s.
If they are serious about providing superior support, you should see the Wiki being updated on a daily basis as they discover different issues with customers in the early days of the X1C being out in customer’s hands.
Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung it is just a company with limited liability. It is exactly the same as LLC it changes how that company is taxed. It is a like a company saying they are BBB rated or loyds listed. It isn’t a name it is a accreditation.
I see multiple name registrations under one address in Shenzhen as evidence they are related.
I can’t find a company that has technology co.ltd. name that uses parts that are from a known independent. E3D, Slice for example. Can you? is that odd that literally 25 maybe 30 companies are all using part purchased from the competition when there are other options?
To me this is odd too odd. If they are competing really there would be outliers trying to do something different using different parts made by recognized brands. Look at Prusa they use parts from E3D.
Other tech companies do not use the same convention for names. Youibot Robotics Co., Ltd SwitchBot Global Makeblock. Same field but the names don’t look the same.
Then if they were different why do most Chinese companies defends their corporate names so aggressively and this one set do not. One word different and it sparks a battle. it is strange that Shenzen Technology Co. Ltd is so forgiving.
Having worked creating advertisements for 34 years, spending a enormous amount of time with marketing gurus. It is far too much to believe it is just a big old fluke.
It is a principal of marketing to get shelf space and placement. Many many companies do this they look like they are different but they are all one.
let drop this we are never going to agree.
I asked Bambu some question per purchase. Who did the canadian electrical certifications, How many parts are patented, who holds the patents (Bambulabs isn’t listed…) whom will be distributing filaments. Educational discounts a few others. I have been waiting a couple or three weeks for a reply…
What you call evidence just… isnt. Its honestly kinda waning into conspiracy theory territory. I’ve avoided saying that till now but just think about what your actual evidence is for your suspicion. It’s literally just that they have a name which is barely similar to the names of other companies.
That’s it.
That’s the only piece of evidence you have to go along with this line of accusations.
You, I assume from context, sent them a demanding email with legal jargon which I assume they either promptly threw away or would be told not to respond to assuming this was some sort of probing question for a legal dispute. Its common for companies to go tight lipped whenever someone seems to be presenting a legal challenge.
That isn’t any evidence.
You ask the question:
What does this mean? Why would they be required to do business with American or British companies for them to be independent? What???
Furthermore Shenzhen Bigtree Technology Co., Ltd is another Chinese company (a popular 3d printer motherboard manufacturer) and they have a direct partnership with E3D selling products that use E3Ds patented Revo technology as well as officially branded Revo nozzles.
On top of that, its clear given their level of integration top down, and the amount of funding they have received which is information you can find publicly, their intention is to save cost to be able to deliver the product that they do by using vertical integration. That would inherently mean that any time they use another companies parts or branding in their product, they are giving away profit margins they don’t believe will be realized.
You can see similar behaviours in companies like Apple where everything they don’t absolutely need to get from another company they produce themselves.
If you did the search I suggested you would do, you would find out instantly that this wasn’t remotely true. There probably hundreds if not thousands with this exact “Shenzhen [real name] Technology” name. It’s no conspiracy at all.
This is like wondering why companies dont defend themselves against other companies having their location in their name or corporation as part of the title.
The answer, as would be clear for any other case. Its the exact reason I brought up GMBH. Its not the distinctive part of the name.
Sure, absolutely, but I do not believe there is evidence for the argument you have presented.
Bringing this away from (in my opinion, mostly irrelelevant) arguments about who may or may not own BambuLabs (that could be solved, if anyone actually wanted to, by paying an international business lawyer to track down the actual paperwork) and back to my customer support saga, I am pleased to say the situation is resolved. There’s been a lot of delays, yes, but for every day they took to get back to me, I took two to get back to them because work had left me exhausted.
Anyway, eventually we figured out how to get the bad install that was failing to launch off my computer, and now BambuSlicer is working just fine. Hooray!
@kitedemon , it is a bit disappointing that they haven’t answered your question about who performed the Canadian electrical certification. That a legit question. Maybe if it was sent independently, they’d be more prompt? As I feel it may have been lost in all the other questions.
Some of the questions you list have obvious answers, IMO. They are the only people distributing their filament; they’ve been pretty clear from the outset about keeping all their sales in-house. If they were offering an educators discount that would be listed on their website, surely, “do you have an educational discount” is easily answered by reading the website. Though it would be good to know if they’re planning such a thing! However, BL is currently getting all the orders they want so I suspect they don’t have a need for such things just now.
As for the questions about the patents, I don’t know that they have an obligation to answer that. It’s also possible the machine hasn’t cleared the approval process yet. Remember that patents have a limited lifespan, and it’s normal business practice not to apply for the patent (and thus start that clock) until you’re ready to tell the world about your invention. So, I’d assume they didn’t start the patent process until they started their marketing campaign, and such things take time - even more time these days because of how China handled Covid. But that’s all speculation, I don’t have any real information.
Ultimately, I am content with how BambuLabs has handled their marketing, their customer interaction, and their aftermarket support. I’m very pleased with the printer. Which means I truly do not care one whit if BambuLabs and Creality are owned by the same parent company, any more than I care that Burger King and Tim Hortons are owned by the same parent company. In both cases, the front-facing businesses are offering related products, but aimed at slightly different niches, and their convergence a level or two up the chain in no way removes choice nor competition from the market. Creality machines are a cheap way for tinkerers to get started in the hobby by giving them an inexpensive machine that mostly works out of the box but is easy to modify and upgrade; Bambu’s printer is for people with zero interest in building and modifying the printer itself and just want another tool in their shop. Very different sectors of the broader 3d printing market.
You can find out about CSA certification by doing a search here:
https://www.csagroup.org/testing-certification/product-listing/
I tried for "“X1 Carbon” and got several hundred responses. None for “Bambu Labs” and three for “X1C”, none of them the 3D printer.
It will probably take a few minutes but with a bit of creativity (“Crealtivity”?) you should be able to find it if it was done legitimately.
I should hope this is the result or the 12 or so full time devs they have on it might be superfluous 
I searched all of the certs I could find and I think as I mentioned the answer is not only do they not, but no 3d printers I could find, including ultimaker or creality do.
Maybe the really high priced industrial ones from Stratasys but none that I’ve found as of yet. All they have is the “I promise its good” CE, and UKCA certs which are basically where a company promises government agencies that their product conforms to their safety laws.
I asked from my work email. I am the procurement person for a department and part of a team for a division in a Canadian university. I re read exactly what I wrote.
I told them we in the last budget purchased 15 Prusa printers and were looking to purchase 10 large format printers. We were considering the as yet not released Prusa XL and Bambulab X1.
Do you offer institutional/ educational discounts and/or volume pricing?
Do your products meet the Canadian Electrical codes? Which agency did the certification?
Some of your components are specific to your products. Are these copyrighted to Bambulabs or a partner? I have concerns for longevity (5 years expected) and having a older company partner would influence our decision.
Can you provide me with sales sheets and full specs and dimensions, as well as environmental space concerns and ventilation recommendations.
Can you provide the SDS or MSDS (safety data sheets or Material safety data sheets) for your filaments?
I am still waiting for a reply. There is no reason why they should not reply, I tend to ask sales people to provide me the information on their products. I get the information I need and I get a sense of the diligence of the sales staff. The folks at Voxel called in an hour of sending an email, they passed my I have a question test.
@PersonWhoPrints I live in Canada I don’t care about EU certifications. It is curious if they have UKCA certifications I wonder what they are listing under? Toys? Machinery? LOL personal water craft?
CE and UKCA are actual certification not “I promise its good” it is part of the Law in the UK and in the EU. It is a code much like Canadian Electrical standard. It is or is not certified.
There is a large umbrella company the is named 3d technology co. ltd. They state there are 200 companies that they are with a nd a huge manufacturing behemoth.
You might believe that “Shenzhen [ name] Technology Co. Ltd is unrelated to “Shenzhen Technology Co (company) Ltd. (limited company its got share holders) and not part of that umbrella but I personally cannot imagine that.
You are now claiming all tech companies in Shenzhen follow the same naming convention, rather than they are all related under a common owner (like the ford motor group)
This is clearly not true. Just look up the name of other companies in Shenzhen they are almost all tech companies but yet more do not share a name. I listed some go find your self others.
I am prevented by my other employer from sharing the marketing tools and direct information I find. There are a number of the companies with Shenzhen [ name] Technology Co. Ltd that the applications for names and copyright is all coming from a single office in Shenzhen that is the second hmmm. It is also interesting Shenzhen Technology Co. Ltd is listed as address.
In my mind I would rather Bambulabs be closely associated with a monster tech company and have the massively deep pockets needed to bring and carry a product to market. It suggests longevity. I hope they do well with support, it is the big issue of most Chinese printers they have poor support.
I am looking for a over size reliable printer that needs no modifications (re certifying for my work is too expensive) Prusa XL or Bambu…
You’re asking the right questions but I fear you’re asking them of the wrong (type of) company.
The questions you are asking are for companies that manufacture “Professional” 3D printers. Bambu Labs, regardless of how well funded they are, are targeting the hobbyist/consumer market.
I just looked at Ultimaker and Zortrax, both produce professional 3D printers and they have the material information that you are asking on their websites. I’m sure that if you asked about UL/CSA certifications they would be happy to provide them to you.
Bambu is most likely relying on the certifications of the power supply(s) and controllers used in their product and saying that they are UL/CSA/FCC certified (needed for the WiFi connection) so their product is as well. Similarly for their materials, they’re either buying other company’s spools directly with their labeling or feedstock from somebody. In either case, they are relying on their vendors to do that work for them.
Having certifications done on a product is very expensive as is doing material certifications and creating an accurate MSDS. Bambu may have good financing, but unless the product specific certifications are mandated by a government or a large customer (you’re not one) they aren’t going to do them and it will just be an exercise in frustration asking for them.
Due diligence. I need a larger form machine, One isn’t enough so we need a handful. The pro machines are just too expensive. Prusa XL will be certified in Canada by Voxel making it reasonable and functional. Bambu is unlikely to get it all sorted and rely on the consumer to sort out the certification (or not) .
I’m not claiming that all do, but that too many for the one company theory to be valid.
I implore that you do the search I was talking about. There are simply too many companies with too far a spread in services and types of this theory to hold water. Your theory is based on a convenience you say feel is too close, but its actually far less close than you imagine.
Here’s a list of various companies with a similar name, non related to 3d printing that I found via the US patent search:
That was with me scanning for a couple minutes and I got 15. The list is basically infinite. The search for “Shenzen Technology” netted 570 results and this is for the US patent system, so I must imagine there are even more that dont have any us patents.
As you can see there are even some that list different regions of china with the same style of name, so I imagine there are likely tens of thousands of companies if not more that are named like that.
As for the other parts of the comment regarding your questions, I think there are many possibilities.
For instance, recently on their discord, they were putting out careers advertisements for a lot of roles based in the US and Europe. One potential avenue is they are simply not ready yet to field business use cases and therefore don’t want to give out answers to something that is yet planned.
It could be that the term copyright is unrelated to the term patent and translation problems occured as a result.
It could be they have a big backlog.
It could be that they are active on other forms of social media more because they are currently targeting consumers primarily.
There are a lot of options.
I get that, but it’s what they have along with an FCC cert that only covers the wireless module.
They also have a power supply that was tested by UL.
Also as a side note, I think we all know that our consumer protections are lacking vs Europe because we take more after the US than the EU on that front unfortunately.
As I mentioned, I couldn’t find actual, tested certs for any other 3d printer company. Maybe stratasys has them but I haven’t found one yet even with business aimed companies like Ultimaker. If you do, I’d love to see it.
Actually if you look these up more as I did when the question was first thrown at the start of the thread it is true these are required by law yes, but the government actually does no third party testing. The company applies and in essence guarantees that it does not violate the law.
In essence, you or I could get that label purely by filling out the paper work.
In 3d printing nerds video, I don’t recall the site but they listed the publicly available investor information and they got over half of 100 million us dollars for starting capital, and then another ~10 from pre orders or kickstarter sales, so with almost 2 thirds of 100 million dollars I think they have a nice healthy amount of starting capital, especially as dollars stretch further in china for manufacturing.
What type of certifications?
I assume CSA, but doesnt that cost a whole lot of money? How could they justify doing something that will benefit other companies that arent even them?
I also don’t live in the US so the FCC doesn’t apply in Canada. To my knowledge no government does certifications they just dictate the rules that apply to products. the certification comes from private companies. Underwriters Laboratories, The CSA group, or Interteck. (UL, CSA, ETL)
Yes of the three the CSA group is the most costly but it is only one company most use UL. All three do certifications for a wide number of products and countries. The Canadian has a small c on the sticker. ULc ETLc, CSAc. On some products the small c is not on the sticker but listed with the information in the instructions or has a certificate of conformity. There are a lot of counterfeit certificates in 3d printers.
No. The certification company must demonstrate the product meets or exceeds Canadian codes. They must test and certify the product they require multiple consumer versions to tear apart to do a full certification
products for sale in Canada. In some cases the printers have met a code Canada recognizes EU codes and a smaller inspection can be done to verify it is up to Canadian standards.
Printers in Canada are often re inspected and individually numbed referencing the inspection. This is on record.
Canadian electrical certification : Special Inspection SPE-1000
“The assembled, tested and certified Prusa MK3(S+) as been requested by our commercial and institutional customers since years. The Special Inspection SPE-1000 is valid in every province of Canada and your printer will have a sticker on it with a unique identification number. This make it the perfect 3D printer for Makerspaces, schools and libraries and businesses that absolutely need the electrical certification but still want to play with an open source 3D printer.”
It is not legal for a Canadian company to sell eletrical products that do not meet Canadian codes. They do the certification to avoid the OHS and Criminal liability. In an institution we are legally required to insure we also meet these codes. As an individual it gets murky. You can import uncertified products and use them as long as they are not permanently wired to the electrical system. Your individual insurance company may or not choose to insure damages caused by these products. If you start a business in your home you need to have certified products.
Find the investor and this is resolved. At this point a small turkish software firm making a 3d printer is odd. They must have a tech partner. I think that partner is the Shenzen Technology Co. Ltd. they manufacturer components for tons of company.
FCC testing results are generally sufficient to get ISED certification - with the other things you are asking for, I’m surprised that you aren’t asking about radiating equipment certifications.
Certifying companies do not need to demonstrate that a product meets or exceeds Canadian certification requirements - they must demonstrate that testing was done that meets or exceeds Canadian certification requirements.
I’ve been involved in the certification of quite a few products over the years and, despite Industry Canada putting out that the testing must be unique for Canadian requirements, when it comes right down to it, the tests required for certifications are very similar to UL/FCC (Class B or Class A) and generally companies will make sure the Canadian requirements are met.
Regardless, as I said before, many companies will rely on component certifications to imply that the overall product is certified even though they do not have any documentation or specific testing supporting the claim.
It seems that Bambu Labs fits in this category and while I laud you on holding their feet to the fire, I don’t expect you to be successful in getting any kind of proof of UL/CSA or FCC/ISED testing being done and I am very sure you won’t find any certification documents.
HI Guys,
I Truly apologize I have not been on in a couple of days as I have not been feeling well. I truly hate cold and flu season.
I really truly value everyone’s opinion but I think this one may have gotten a little off-topic.
I am going to close the topic because although the end topic is relevant to our business I think it did come off the tracks of the original thread topic. If I am wrong here please feel free to PM me and I will consider opening it again.
I don’t want to run the risk of anyone feeling like their comments are not being held in a matter of respect as I want this community to be.