Beginning of new line is curling / not adhering

The beginning of most lines are not adhering to the bed. Layers on top of the initial are doing the same for many layers. I thought maybe bed temp but not sure. See photo.
I’m using a 0.6mm nozzle (tried several new).
15-20mm/s initial layer (glue stick on bed - thin or thick, dry or fresh)
Euro PETG 215-230 hot end (no change with temperature, higher temp = too much oozing).
Bed temp 50 or 60 (higher layers do the same so bed temp doesn’t seem to be critical).
Several areas on the bed (not location dependent).
Layer height 0.3mm (initial 0.2-0.35 - no change).

Creality Ender 5 Plus
Micro Swiss Direct Drive (tried many retract distance and speed settings)
Micro Swiss all metal hot end.
V2.2.1 silent board.
Bed is level (no warp) and using ABL.
No fan first few layers.

Any suggestions?
Thanks
R

LineCurl

I don’t consider my self an expert at this, but the first thing I’d do is lower the nozzle slightly to make sure the first layer gets “squished” onto the bed.

Second, there is an option in Cura to specify the initial layer line width. I use 120%.

Third, consider raising the nozzle temperature by 5-10C.

Thanks. I have been working on these.
Lower and higher nozzle.
Lower and higher temp.
110-130% first layer line width.

I’m thinking it may be with my extruder.
It seems the "un"retraction is late as the new line starts.
I have tried different distances and speeds as well.
I did have some success with extruder extra prime amount but concerned I was going down a rabbit hole.
Just about burned through a spool trying to troubleshoot

I appreciate your thoughts.

R

You are not close enough to the bed.
When I print with PETG, nozzle 230, 70 bed and fan off first 3 layers, then only 30% after that.
Never retract over 2 with a Micro Swiss all metal hotend.

Thanks Logan5,
That was my first thought as well.
The bed adhesion is good elsewhere and only seems to have this problem after some retractions (not all) and the issue persists on subsequent layers.
Retraction has always been 1.0mm or less (from stringing calibration test). No change with this issue.
Fan is off for first several layers then tried 25% to 40%. Issue persists.
For the first layer, do you recommend lower than 0.2? 0.15 perhaps?
Could this be an issue with my model? I don’t often see this on other prints.
Thanks
R

I agree, not close enough to the bed. Maybe some adhesive glue as well.

Jason, I’m using glue stick as noted. I’ve tried 0.2 from the bed with a 0.6mm nozzle. No change. Do you recommend 0.15? Sounds too thin to me. And what about the layers on top of the first layer? They are doing the same thing. I’m going in circles here. Frustrating.

Your photo doesn’t show layers on top of layers separating and curling, If you look closely, it’s actually beside it - curling off the bed. I still say lower it. Squish it into the bed.

Yes. I stopped the print to get a photo of this first line but there are many layers doing this. I’ll try lowering to 0.15. Has anyone used this for the first layer thickness on 0.6 nozzle?

@RascalHoudi if the didn’t help. I found similar with a 0.8 nozzle. I had to increase the temperature a lot. The volume and speed of the nozzle extrudes at means higher temps of the hot end to compensate. I found if I was normally printing @ 215 first layer 210 others, I needed to increase temps to 240/235. Some say more than this.

Update:
No change. Lowered the nozzle, still curls. The rest of the line is flat/squished and adhering to the bed. Could this be a priming issue in the nozzle? Too much? Too little?

Also, it seems to only happen in the X direction. Rotated the model and still shows on X direction and in more than one location on the bed.

@kitedemon I’ll try some higher temps. Will try other materials next.

Rather than reslice with a different first layer height, I’d suggest using a small negative z-offset on the printer itself. If you trammed (leveled) then bed with a feeler made from a piece of paper 0.1 mm thick (.004" a typical piece of paper), and did not compress the bed springs while tramming, then the printer’s “0” position is set that distance above the bed. I generally give the printer a z-offset to compensate.
Secondly, especially with PETG, a slower re-prime, with a bit of extra prime, helps me a lot. With a direct drive extruder, you won’t need to be as extreme as I, but I’ve been using a reprime speed down around 12mm/sec, and extra prime volume that roughly matches the volume extruded for 1mm of line. This lets the nozzle “push off” from the beginning of a line, rather than pulling on it.

Thanks. I was working on tuning in a reprime when I found out my z vref was too low when the bed dropped a couple of mm. Most of the curl is gone and adhesion is restored. Still fine tuning but pleased with the results so far. I will get back to the reprime soon.